I'm going somewhere with this bare with me            & nbsp;           &nbs p;            & nbsp;           &nbs p;            I live in Az and the system is sicker than my illness. The first time I got commited I had a bad trip on LSD. I was acting strange  I throw water on my father. Technectlly assult. I got to the hospital and they shot me up with Haldol. I only weighed 115lb. I had painful muslespazms the tendone on my neck felt streached to the ground. I fell into a violent psycosis. I refused my meds and fought visioslly to defend myself. this happened every shot at least once aday. I escaped county hospital only to b caught yards away. They transford me to the state hospital. I was first thrown in isolation. there were holes in the walls so I grabed a steel beam and an a couple of nails. I had the beem balencing on my knee. I took the nails and dragged them vigoruslly against a srean window. The gaurds ran in I told them they should patch the walls some1 might get hurt walked away from the beem and haned them the nails. I spent 6months in am over medicated panful state. my mind was tormented. This was nothing less than torchure. A nurse walked in with tears swelled in his eyes and told me it would be so much easier if i replied. Then he put two fingers inside his mouth. I "compled" and daily lodged out my pills. IIn three weeks I was getting home visits in a month I was out. They thought i was going to b a lifer. A yr later I went to college and was studing psy. I had a 4.0 10 credits away from my assosiates.I was in speical ed. through high school making C and D's. I dropped out of callege because I could not handle the pressure of sucess. I have also been aministerd respidol. I told them I got psycotic and violent on it the said that was a side effect not an allergic reation. They shot me up with a two week lasting shot a dose of seriquil and drove me home to my house with my scared girlfriend I ran outside i could not make out any vision. I jumped in front of a car and came very close to getting hit a day later I whent to ers only to b turned away. I robbed a store very apoligetically. i gave them my name and social and told them to please call me for help. I felt jail was my only option to keep myself and others to stay safe. I walked acrosss the street and dropped my now exs boss on his head.  I hopped in a cab and scored some weed/ I smoked it cried and turned myself in. I now have a permanite record. This happened again last yr. they shot me up again two yrs ago with the drug haldol. I got reliesed and started to loose it in front of my then pregnent girlfriend. She aborted my child at 4months. *months ago dispite my protest and my fist. the would shoot me up and releice me because they could not find me a bed. I returned very unstable they just would shoot me up and reliece me. There is an art district in Phx I was very much apart of the comunity. It was across the street from the UPC I had to move away. I can't make this up. I have all fifteeen yrs documented. I don't know what mental health is the fasilities here broke me. I would have watchdog's in there and do therough investigations on aligations of abuse. My last visit at desert vista in mesa a gentalman died from complications .of a flew. he was soiling himself repeativly screeming in agony. They took over an hr to call the paremedics. His name was mosa. MOne of my nurses on unit 6 norman told me that musa was dead on arrivle. I saw his eyes of fear he know he was going to die. I had just burried a beautiful friend to weeks b4. The system has failed me? when I got into psy I wanted to get my masters in psy and go to law school to help defend my peers from neglect. I only know how b exposing my story. I have yet to have found anyone that have taken me seriouslly. Yet I have my records. I would set up a hospital with inviting walls. Relaxing music. Get rid of the T.V.'s. I would have painting, and yoga, hamics, a yard with some bushes and trees. I would work on healthy diet. 5 HTP. and a vitamin compex. I would give them validation and love. I would not have hospitals instead a mental retreat. I hope on ur quest to find out what is right. You listen to your pationts. I also think it is important for Drs to take there own medicine before they tell us to get use to the side effects.We my b unstable, but that does not meen we arnt being abused. I think you should consider alturnitves to medicine. thanks for listening/

Sandy,

I totally hear you about the DSM-IV...it is outdated
and needs to be modified substantially. Not everyone is a cookie cutter
mold of each diagnosis code, and I think that's a good thing. Also, I think more people have access to the diagnostic criterion than when it was first introduced, so people are more aware and educated (like yourself) about your own personal struggles.

I'm with you on the disagreement about different ways of treating too, and how people can't agree on what the best way to treat someone is. This has to do with theraputic preference. For example, I am very cognitive-behavioral, but that may not be the best thing for someone with severe depression. So treatment methods change depending on who's dishing out the treatment, and I guess that has much to do with it. This is also where referrals "should" come into play, where if a therapist isn't right for the person, then we need to recognize that and refer out. I got a client a month ago who I knew right off the bat I probably wasn't going to be the best person for her, so I suggested that we find someone that would work better for her, and we did.

I don't look at clients as being a pain, because I am fortunate to be able to help the ones I can. Without them, I'd be out of a job, and have to do something boring like accounting for a living. So I see them as a blessing; to see them as anything else would be to get a little too comfortable with the helping profession.

Marg,

I hear what you're saying about the HIPPA laws as well. I think these were written to try to over-ride the Patriot Act, and at least have therapy and medical records protected under some law. Unfortunately, that means that even with the best of intentions, family members can't get involved, even if it would help. An easy way to manage this is to get releases signed, so everyone's butt is covered. Once those releases are signed, the sharing of info can (and often does) begin.

The inpatient stuff kinda bugs me too. I used to work at a respite center where most of our clients were suicidal or a danger to themselves. I found it difficult to get some of those clients motivated to "do" something other than watch TV. Also, part of the deal was that if they were suicidal, they couldn't leave the grounds until they were at least a day in. So it was hard to try to find things for them to do, even if they were cleared to go elsewhere. Since I left, they got a larger building, so I'm hoping that they have improved or changed the activity level there to incorporate something more productive than just sleeping and TV.

Some of these programs do have groups that allow for sharing these experiences, so I am pleased to say that there are improvements in some areas (though more can be done).

Stage,

I probably won't know exactly what its like to walk in your shoes, but I do know what its like to feel anger and fear and not know where the money is going to come from to pay the rent (kind of like this week, actually). I'm not sure what the services are like in your area, but perhaps there are some programs that can help you get to the point where you can start to get ahead. Maybe the Department of Transitional Assistance in your area could help point you in the right direction.

I do hope things improve for you and your family. Its a heavy burden to manage children, and to do so where you're at is probably additionally difficult. You're in my prayers.

Debra,

I agree in that everyone is different, so different methods work for different people...traditional or no. Back in the late 80's they had something called "scream therapy" where people went into sound proof rooms and screamed their lungs out. That worked for some people...I wouldn't do it, but whatever, that's fine. Another non-traditional method is drama therapy, where you take a traumatic event from your life, and the people in the group act it out. I think this is dangerous personally, but some people benefit from it.

Your point is on target though - speak out! You know your pain and your issues. You're all educated about them because you want to know how to get better. When I work with someone, I want to know what the end game is for them, and just feeling better isn't the answer. Its living better, and that means something different for everyone. Define that, and I think it will help others to know what you mean when you say you want to be "mentally well."

New Hope, Gee you're right. You are underpaid! And yes, i'm angry. And mollified. i never even achieved the lofty educational level you have. (cept maybe, thirty years of doin it); when i could still work, when my good name and professional reputation had not been destroyed, and my "mental" perception of the world were not skewed-my starting rate was $17.35 an hour-and that was just to put clothes on somebody!

But you're right- i'm angry- and hurt-and i hate myself for every self righteous breath that i draw- and i hate that i can't even find a job in the civilian world- and i hate that i can't even get help for my poor depressed son-or help my daughter out with college-and that i don't even have the right clothes to go look for a civilian job-or gas to put in my car to get there- Do You Know What i Feel? Cause i Don't Think You Know What i Fear....i don't think you know what i fear....i'll go away now

I don't think this is really what you are asking for, but the very first thing I would change if I could would be some of the MH laws in NYS that were written to preserve the human/civil rights of the "patient".  I would rewrite them so that the treatment team could converse with family members freely without HIPPA worries, and would know what is going on with their love one even if the loved one didn't sign a HIPPA waiver.

I would re-write the laws so that the treatment staff in group homes could "make" clients do something other than sleep all day of sit alone in their rooms.

I would also have group meetings / social meetings with mentally ill clients and people who don't have mental illness.  This gives the mentally ill client a way to "practice" socialization.  The groups now are with other mentally ill clients and aren't necessarily benefitting each other.  There is more complaining and less sharing.  Of course, there would need to be HIPPA waivers signed and confidentiality guidelines, but it is a good idea.

I'm with Stage with much of what she says.  My biggest beef however, especially with my particular illness is lack of knowledge about it.  My symptoms of depersonalization and derealization are extremely common, yet many mental health professionals have no clue what I'm talking about.  More did in the past, than those professionals I've encountered recently (past 10 years).

I feel there is a lack of understanding of neurology on the part of many counselors.  I always say, a neurologist knows exactly what DP/DR are.  My current medical resident, M.D., in psychiatry, doesn't even understand what deja-vu is and finds my case "intimidating."  Well, I walked out!  The ACSW-II I see (and this is at a famous university) knows more than many of the psychiatrists.  As she says, "She works with groups, spends more time talking, spends more time with inpatients."

Also, I heard this from my mother the psychiatrist years ago -- she found some of her patients "amusing pains in the ass."  And another medical resident I saw (they rotate out every year or so to go onward and upward) said at medical conferences, psychiatrists and non-psychiatric M.D.'s "joke" about their patients "complaints."  Would someone joke about a cancer patient?

I've also been misdiagnosed about 20 times and subsequently fired said professionals.

It may be I'm old and have been through the ringer for nearly 50 years, IDK.  I have also sought to educate myself.  That is empowering for any patient, with a physical or mental disorder.  I also diagnosed what was wrong with my laptop after the techs patted me on the head and said, "Now, now, all of these models overheat."  ACH!

There has to be, maybe, greater sharing of knowledge.  That's what I love about the NAMI Conventions.  But also, the internet has helped ... yet it is also full of a lot of garbage.

Also, what terrifies me is the inpatient situation.  I have never been an inpatient, but the stories I hear from a good many people -- they aren't pretty.  Again, even at a respected university inpatient facility.

You know me, counselor, trying to educate people with my website.  Well, I give it as an assignment to my therapists!

Finally, sorry I'm on a rant w/Mo here, LOL, there are so many different "ways" of helping a person, yet such disagreement amongst all these professionals. The DSM-IV is a tad scary and indeed out of date.  And I know it takes a tremendous amount of reading to keep up with current education.

And some professionals have wonderful "bedside manner" whatever the specialty, and others ... well, as noted, I have gotten up and walked out of a number of offices and still paid for that one session, so I'm not considered "belligerent" sp? or "a pain."  God forbid.

Thanks for hearing me out.  Man we get on your case, eh?

Thanks for the comment Stage. I admire your gutsiness!   I take it other than that, you have no strong feelings about the matter? 

Let me address your main issue here, which it sounds like is cost for quality. Its a shame that we can't offer better counseling services for people who can't afford it. Unfortunately, sometimes those who work at clinics are just stepping through the next rung in the ladder. I've been there, and I did that myself, so I don't make any qualms about it. As soon as the internship hours are done, its time to move on, because it doesn't pay as much as say an outpatient health center will.If clinics got more government money (because let's face it, no one else is going to dump money into something that will not produce a return for their investment), there's no guarantee that the professionals would get paid more for their services. I agree that the people with the heaviest mental illness often are
"babysat" by people with bachelor's degrees or less. Why? Because
people with a master's degree don't want to get a master's degree and
make $10 an hour (that's what those jobs pay...seriously). I could work
at Home Depot for that and not put in all that time.

I hope your beef isn't with the fact that stuff costs money, because that's reality. Speaking of reality, lets talk what counselors are really getting paid, shall we?

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Mental_Health_Counselor/Salary

There's a running joke in therapy school that "you don't get into this field for the money." Boy were they right. Most therapists with a Master's Degree make $30,000 right out of graduate school. I don't know where you're getting this $250,000/year stuff, but my reality, and the reality of my colleagues is that we just get by with what we make. That breaks down to about $18/hour or less gross. My wife has about 3 years college education, and worked for a corporation as an administrative assistant and made more than I did (about $12,000-14,000 more actually).

So let me see if I get this straight: I go to school for 7 years to get a master's degree to help people (all student loans mind you, I grew up poor, and still am by some standards). I finish my schooling, put in another 3 years experience to get licensed (10 years total at this point) to not only help people with their problems (that are complex in many cases), but also develop strong enough boundaries to not take these issues home and make them my own. Then I work with insurance companies to ensure that my clients get the lowest cost to them as possible, and fight with these same companies to ensure I get paid for my hard work (the people texting and looking at their watches should be better trained than that...I actually WORK with my clients).

And all that, to you, is worth 5 cents a hit?

I don't know whether to cry or be insulted.

Let's go with neither and assume that you've been burned by the mental health field, and I get that. No system or profession is perfect. Does that make it right? No, but the only way it can change is through organizations like this that make talking about mental health more mainstream. Legislation needs to occur before the quality of care can change. That also involves money to pay lobbyists to take senators and congressmen out to dinner, and stand out in front of people's offices to try to make changes.

I guess my point is, its going to take a lot to make those changes. Organizations like NKM2 are the first step in a process like this, and that's why I support Joey's efforts. I know I probably painted a big target on my head asking a question like this one, but if there isn't an understanding of how to improve, things won't change. So its worth it to me to understand, so I can pass the word along and let your voices be heard among my colleagues.

I appreciate your comment, and I'm glad you took the time to tell me where you were at.

From my standpoint, There is a HUGE difference in the practicum nowadays.

We have the plethora of psychologists, and MSW's that pour out of colleges and universities; well meaning as that may seem when the ink on their degrees is still damp; who open up toney little "counseling practises", and charge anywhere from $70-$200 a rip to listen to the problems of folks who can afford those prices for fifty minutes of ones time. We have the "behavioural health centers", there again to cater to those that, once again, can AFFORD it. These places are given cutsey little boutique names like, "Serenity Place" or "Wllows" or "Three Bridges"- and that right there is the problem. The "Boutiquification" of mental health.

The MAJORITY of folks with REAL mental health issues are the ones who can hardly afford a cup of coffee and a buck-a-burger, much less a respite at some toney spa. (Which, letsfaceit, is what the bottom line is- You Guys wanna MAKE BIG BUCKS off someones problems.) And i guess, Capitolism being what it is, is suppose to be a good thing. The rest of us, the ones who can never even DREAM of making a fourth of what is now considered to be "middle income" $250K a year, or more, well, we're out in the cold. We have to stand in line for hours at overloaded and underfunded, understaffed clinics that still try to shake us down for $ we don't have. And, if we do get to talk to someone, theres no feedback, nothing to walk away with but the sensation that we've just spent our time talking to a wall, or worse yet, someone who sits there and checks their cellphone text msgs or their watch a bazillion times during the session. "HEY! We know how important you are, we know you don't want to be sittin here listenin to us rant about problems you can't even relate to, why this one stays with a man who beats the crap outa her, or why our kids are actin like gang thugs and stealin all our money. You're really important, we get that." But for this period of time, whether i'm PAYING you $70 or $15, you're on MY time, PAY ATTENTION TO ME> Put away your icons of self importance and look at me, interact with me, cause really dude, when it comes right down to it, i can get more feigned interest from the crackwhore on the corner!

The mental health infrastructure in this country has all but been done away with. Its as if mental health has no place in the concept of "healthcare" broadspec. We're all out here clamoring for healthcare reform, but nobodys talking about the problem with uncle Ernie, cos its all in his head, anything we say about it is "justcrazytalk". We Don't Count- mainly cos We Can't Pay boutique pricing to get HELP.

We're all living in a much, MUCH different world than we were a year ago, MUCH LESS ten years ago. And "crazy" or not; we're not STUPID- we see whats going on- Youth and Beauty are the new replacements for intelligence in integrity. People who've worked YEARS just trying to live a good life and provide for their families are now living in TENTS, while some gum cracking, hottie little dit dot or too hot arrogant entitlment weasel is doing our job, and the thing is, they don't really give a crap about that job, or the next, or the one after that, cos they'll just keep plowin thru till they get what they want.

Theres a REAL DEPRESSION going on out there; we crazy people are not in denial about that at all- but what really yanks our chain is that GREEDY people are still trying to cash in on our emotional anguish.

Remember LUCY from PEANUTS? She had the right idea, 5 cents a hit, and at the end of the session, she'd tellya EXACTLY what you needed to do.